Jehovah’s Witnesses and the cross (part 4)
Mar 30th, 2010 by MrCult
A more detailed insight on why Jesus was crucified on a CROSS rather than a stake. Exposing some of the manipulations of Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society in presenting their view of the stake. Also demonstrating that the stake is a pagan phallic object, just as the cross is a pagan object. This video establishes that the Watchtower Society is itself a pagan organization.
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among jews it was impalement not by the two piece cross..it was custom of the jews look it up.
Jesus died on the torture stake. The soldiers came around to break the legs of those who were impaled that day, as was the custom in order to hasten death. They broke the legs of the two evildoers. However, they found that Jesus had already died, so they did not break his legs, but one jabbed his side with a spear.—Joh 19:31-36; Ps 34:20.
34 Yet one of the soldiers jabbed his side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he that has seen [it] has borne witness, and his witness is true, and that man knows he tells true things, in order that YOU also may believe. 36 In fact, these things took place in order for the scripture to be fulfilled: Not a bone of his will be crushed. 37 And, again, a different scripture says: They will look to the One whom they pierced.
Then the Jews, since it was Preparation, in order that the bodies might not remain upon the torture stakes on the Sabbath, (for the day of that Sabbath was a great one,) requested Pilate to have their legs broken and the [bodies] taken away. 32 The soldiers came, therefore, and broke the legs of the first [man] and those of the other [man] that had been impaled with him. 33 But on coming to Jesus, as they saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
AND, if Jesus died on a pole, the statement of the thieves being crucified one on his right hand, and one on his left would lose meaning – beside him would be a better term if this was to be the case.
Research shows that the JW stake execution WAS used at times, but for quick executions – perhaps as little as 6 minutes. Crucifixion was the preferred way of death as it was long, drawn out and more visible – and gave the state more bang for the buck if deterrence was the goal.
If it was to be a prediction, then the snake would have to be nailed to the pole.You can only carry these illustrations so far. You haven’t responded to the issue of a first century body being found on a CROSS, and the tacit admission by thew WTS that this destroys their position. Nor have to addressed the implications of being IMPALED which by definition means being skewered by the pole, yet the scripture states that not one bone of his body would be broken something impossible with impalement.
Capitol punishment by Jews was by stoning. When Jesus was in the temple and made the statement that he was God, John 8:59, Stephen Acts 7:58 to cite just two examples.
I’ve spent that time attempting to understand how intelligent people get sucked into things like that.
Germans are intelligent people – yet by 1939, most had accepted Hitlers brainwashing and enthusiastically supported both the war and the anti-Semitic views of Hitler. One German writer stated that the realization of how far the nation had gone was like waking up from a dream. How had they fallen for this philosophy so unquestioningly?
So I study the same question re the JW’s
so your a stalker since your following them around..are you a spy?
the scripture is plain and clear it was a prediction or prophecy thats the son of man jesus would be lifted up just like the snake on an upright the pole..none of your theorizing will change that fact
You’re making an issue where none exists. The fact that the snake was on a pole is not the point of the compaeison – the comparison is that as the snake was lifted up so people could look at it and live, so Christ was to be lifted up. “If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me”. Nothing about the method of being lifted up. The instrument wasn’t mentioned, the action was. An illustration is usually only meant to demonstrate one fact. In this case, being lifted up.
Transferring – is the NWT. The KIT gives “be you going across”, so the KJV “go” and the NIV “Move about” (better) are both valid translations of Lk 10 – the reason you supplied is conjecture. But you haven’t confronted the issue I raised re this and a parallel assignment – Mat 10:10, and the same commands were given both times – If you want to claim that door to door recruiting is God’s command, then you should take the command in its entirety or not at all.
Its pretty presumptive to suggest you know what I believe. I have had the advantage of having both an education and time teaching the Bible postgraduate, and I didn’t inherit my theology. I’m allowed, in fact encouraged to study the Scriptures, free of coercion. I am under no risk of being disfellowshipped if I ask a question.
And you really don’t have the truth – its not in the WTS
Just for the record, I have 20 year old grandkids, and I’ve been following the WTS for over 40 years. So I understand many of the twists and turns in their teaching.
How many JW’s know what I posted above – that a mummified body dated in the first century was found in a tomb on a 2 piece cross – a bent nail had prevented the body from being removed from the cross.
WTS is aware of this and has removed their prediction that proof will appear for their position. Why haven’t they told you?
Young?
Hardly.
Likely I’m old enough to be your father.
I do not wish any “dialogue.” I know I have the truth.
If I owned a Jaguar, why would I look around at a Kia dealership??!
Get the point?
I have the truth.
You don’t.
Yet.
Far from young! I am experienced in the truth.
Jesus did NOT say “do not go from house to house”. That’s a faulty translation you have. He DID say, “Do not be TRANSFERRING from house to house.”
Jesus disciples were to stay at a house until their mission in that town or city had been accomplished. His followers were not to transfer from one home to another because a certain householder possessed more goods or could offer the disciples greater comfort and entertainment than some other person.
Ya gotta be careful about quoting this dude – He also states that baptism is a pagan rite.
Apart from the fact that the WTS has now removed their statement to the effect that new and upcoming archaeological discoveries will strengthen their position from all their literature, the evidence is only supportive of their position by being very selective.
One thing they have not published anywhere, and the omission is despicable, is the 1st century mummy found still attached to a cross. I wonder why?
To fulfill Jesus command to go door to door you havr to expect to cast out devils, heal the sick and perform miracles. But note the command of Jesus in Lk 10:7 “do not go from house to house”
You sound like a young JW who hasn’t yet been able to think this through for yourself – but I commend you for listening.
If and when you want to engage in a realistic dialogue, and not the company line, feel free to engage. But be careful. questioning anything about the WTS brings disfellowshipping.
jesus did die on a cross notice in john 20:25..if jesus was crucified on a stake then both hands would have been placed above his head and only one nail would have been needed to go through…(John 20:25, in his hands the print of the nails)
“Jesus HAD to BE Impaled theres no way around it.”
Just wanted to share one more observation with you. In Justin Lipsius’ illustration of impalement, the victim is run through, nearly sitting down, and his hands are tied below his waist behind him, not above his head (see the video). This differs from the crux simplex that the WT teaches. Not that this is proof in and of itself, but just an observation.
I’ve just noticed something else that’s interesting…in the illustration in Justin Lipsius’ book regarding crucifixion on a tree, the person’s arms are stretched out and over the limbs of the tree (see 0:22) rather than up above his head. Hmmm…
Of what is he referring when he says “Orient”, further clarification of point (b) is needed, and (c) also needs to be expanded upon (otherwise, these are again statements without evidence…)
According to net . bible . org, the word in question in Deut.21:23 is ‘ets (6086):
1) tree, wood, timber, stock, plank, stalk, stick, gallows
1a) tree, trees
1b) wood, pieces of wood, gallows, firewood, cedar-wood, woody flax
Strong’s:
From H6095; a tree (from its firmness); hence wood (plural sticks): – + carpenter, gallows, helve, + pine, plank, staff, stalk, stick, stock, timber, tree, wood.
“Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our [word] cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”
Which brings me back to question your statement about God not allowing His son to die on a pagan symbol…?
Again, this is an interesting statement, but it does not contain any evidence to support it…
I don’t think you addressed this in your post so I’ll ask again:
Hi vincenz, yes, I’ve checked it out
Every pic that I’ve found shows the snake *coiled* around the pole. As I’ve asked previously, was Jesus coiled around the stake? I would still appreciate a response to the other questions, too 